I thought I’d go up Defiance and see for myself what the conditions might be before the heavy rains come in and change it all. It was a cloudy day and it rained much of the time, even though the forecast was only for a 30% chance.
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Dog Mt. was barely peaking out (upper right) and was well corralled by a layer of clouds as I reached the 1200’ viewpoint on Starvation ridge…
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…but it was very visible when I reached 2400’
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The river below Wind Mt., on the left, was well socked in.
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By the time I grabbed a bite another cloud was coming my way and off I went.
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The talus slope had about 3” of snow on it and it stayed from 2-5” most of the way. I didn't get a snapshot there, since I ran into an ol' trail friend, who was coming down, and got sidetracked. Good to see you, Rob.
At 3700’ the scenery really picked up.
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At the beginning of the 3800’ plateau leading to Warren Lake the trees began appearing to have more snow on the limbs than was on the ground. I was getting soaked as it was melting and sloughing off onto the trail, and me, at 37-40 degrees.
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Warren Lake was just beautiful.
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By now my camera lens was getting wet and fogged up. Please excuse the smudges. The 2nd talus slope above the lake was a sight to see.
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Just before reaching the junction with the Defiance Trail, I couldn’t help noticing the hatchet job an apparent trail crew thought was appropriate. I’ll keep my opinion on that to myself. %#@! I can’t wait for the snow to deepen enough for snowshoeing, so, by off-trailing, I won’t have to see these. There must have been 10-15 of these before the 1st road crossing.
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At the road crossing the trees were really sagging.
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One of only a very few downed trees all day.
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The trees and limbs were gorgeous on the last .1 mile leading to the summit.
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Snow depth was only 5-6” on top.
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I met Lisa and Nina just before reaching the summit. It was their first time up Defiance. It was fun chatting with them, back down to the Warren Lake Jct., where we were doing the loop in opposite directions. Nice meeting you.
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I suggested to Lisa that gore-tex footwear was a good idea in wintertime up here, but she toughed this hike out, well. Nice going ladies!
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Dog Mt. turned out to be the only view of the day with Augspurger behind it.
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The talus slope above
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Green Point plateau in the distance
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Snow was just a dusting from 3800’ down to 2800’ on the Defiance Trail.
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The only real problem log at 3000’ all day.
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The few others, like this one, were easy to get over.
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Wind Mt.
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A trail crew did a fine job of inserting a nifty little switchback to the storm damaged area where many had become resigned to butt-sliding down. They also did a good job of fine-tuning mcds’s massive rehabilitation trail work after the 12-20-2012 ice storm. (my 2012 TR on that damage). Thanks to all who pitched in!
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Lancaster Falls
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---I didn’t know what to expect before starting this hike and was pleasantly surprised by the picturesque snow formations. I was expecting much more debris and damage from the recent wind storms and the one minor ice storm, but other trails got it worse. This trail looks good, considering, but winter is just coming on. It was a great day for a hike! 11.9 miles / 5000’ gain.
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Mt. Defiance 12-18-14
Mt. Defiance 12-18-14
Last edited by Jack on July 17th, 2015, 7:38 pm, edited 5 times in total.
- Grannyhiker
- Posts: 4598
- Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
- Location: Gateway to the Columbia Gorge
Re: Mt. Defiance 12-18-14
I wonder who did the hatchet job? The Forest Service used to use these upside down ! blazes for their official trails, but I understand that they haven't used them for quite a few years, if not decades. Does anyone know when they stopped? The cuts do heal, but the scar is there for the life of the tree--it usually heals to a thin line. Those scars do come in handy when you're looking for old, discontinued trails, but I don't think that's an issue for this trail. In fact, the scars are impossible to erase (without cutting down the tree), should the trail have to be relocated.
Re: Mt. Defiance 12-18-14
Just incredible the way that snow was sticking to the entire windward side of trees, like proverbial north side moss. And just gorgeous higher up, in the boughs. No fun walking under that in melting conditions, though! Nice to see this, as I imagine it's all going to disappear this weekend with the snow level moving up to 8000' and an "atmospheric river" heading our way.
Karl
Back on the trail, again...
Back on the trail, again...
Re: Mt. Defiance 12-18-14
Nice report and photos.
I was up there in October and saw this blaze, several large rock cairns with posts in the middle, and new signs here and there. I got the impression it was all done to spec so I assumed at the time it was a Forest Service crew that blazed the trees.Grannyhiker wrote:I wonder who did the hatchet job? [...]
The future's uncertain and the end is always near.
Re: Mt. Defiance 12-18-14
Yes, GH, I was quite taken aback by the exclamation point notches. Whoever did it sawed the branches off, too, which led me to believe it might be a trail crew. It seems to me that would have been enough to indicate where the trail is without the notches. They have been using paint over that stretch of trail, the last few years.
Karl, I was hoping I would get up there before that warm front got here. Looks like I just made it, until more winter storms hit. I sure wasn’t expecting that much snow in the trees, considering the ground depth and how little snow there has been, so far, this year.
I agree, Paul that the FS probably did it to spec. It just seems so out of place in the gorge, or any place, these days. I wasn't aware new blazes were approved, though old ones are common.
Karl, I was hoping I would get up there before that warm front got here. Looks like I just made it, until more winter storms hit. I sure wasn’t expecting that much snow in the trees, considering the ground depth and how little snow there has been, so far, this year.
I agree, Paul that the FS probably did it to spec. It just seems so out of place in the gorge, or any place, these days. I wasn't aware new blazes were approved, though old ones are common.
- Grannyhiker
- Posts: 4598
- Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
- Location: Gateway to the Columbia Gorge
Re: Mt. Defiance 12-18-14
Looking at some of your pics once again, it appears that at least one of the blazes is not at all neat. Also, the branch trimming appears to be a rather butchered job. In one photo it looks as though the branches may have been only partly cut and then ripped off, taking extra bark. I suspect this may not have been authorized maintenance!
Where are our TKO trail maintenance gurus for an expert opinion? Should this post, or at least those photos, be moved to Trail Rx where they'll see it?
Where are our TKO trail maintenance gurus for an expert opinion? Should this post, or at least those photos, be moved to Trail Rx where they'll see it?
Re: Mt. Defiance 12-18-14
Hi!
Thank you for your report.
I actually have a question regarding your track. Like most of the Defiance reports and topo guides on the internet, it looks like the Starvation Ridge takes the trails 414 and 417 to attain the top. However, nobody seems to ONLY use 414 trail, the actual designated Starvation Ridge, why so ?
I have actually hiked it myself and couldn't find the junction between 414 and 417, does it exist ? is the topo map wrong ?did I miss it ?
I hope my question was clear. Attached is the section that I am talking about
Thank you for your report.
I actually have a question regarding your track. Like most of the Defiance reports and topo guides on the internet, it looks like the Starvation Ridge takes the trails 414 and 417 to attain the top. However, nobody seems to ONLY use 414 trail, the actual designated Starvation Ridge, why so ?
I have actually hiked it myself and couldn't find the junction between 414 and 417, does it exist ? is the topo map wrong ?did I miss it ?
I hope my question was clear. Attached is the section that I am talking about
Re: Mt. Defiance 12-18-14
The bit of trail that the topo shows heading SW from elevation point 2786 does not exist (or, at least, no one has been able to find it! ). I'm sure others more familiar with the history of the map will be able to conjecture why the ghost trail is still on the map! If the trail did exist, you would crest Starvation ridge where it flattens out and runs into that headwall (before veering left around the slope to the switchbacks) and would somehow head towards your right directly up the hill. I've always meant to go poke around and see if there was any evidence of a trail ever being there, but I believe others have tried (Pablo?) and didn't find anything.totops1 wrote:nobody seems to ONLY use 414 trail, the actual designated Starvation Ridge, why so ?
I have actually hiked it myself and couldn't find the junction between 414 and 417, does it exist ? is the topo map wrong ?did I miss it ?
#pnw #bestlife #bitingflies #favoriteyellowcap #neverdispleased
Re: Mt. Defiance 12-18-14
We've never made blazes on trees on any of the WTA trips I've been on in recent years, though they were all Gifford Pinchot NF trips. And the ones I see are quite old. I bumped around the internet looking for an overall FS policy on them and did not find one. I did find a guide to making blazes but it was on a forest service history site. Wikipedia says that they are frowned upon in wilderness areas, but the sense I get is that every national forest can have it's own policy.
Although I find it hard to believe that they have a policy of making blazes since we see so few new ones, the answer could be as simple as the person who oversaw that particular trip being an old-timer who wanted to do things the way he was used to them, or even a worker on the trip who didn't know they aren't made any more and nobody corrected them until a few had been made. So my guess is that they are an anomaly due to one individual.
Although I find it hard to believe that they have a policy of making blazes since we see so few new ones, the answer could be as simple as the person who oversaw that particular trip being an old-timer who wanted to do things the way he was used to them, or even a worker on the trip who didn't know they aren't made any more and nobody corrected them until a few had been made. So my guess is that they are an anomaly due to one individual.
Re: Mt. Defiance 12-18-14
I’m, now, reasonably sure it was a private party marking that particular section with paint, before. They may have grown tired of coming back every couple years and sought something more permanent. Thanks, Dean, for your input.Grannyhiker wrote:I suspect this may not have been authorized maintenance!
My son and I tried to find this phantom trail a few years ago. We broke off of Trail #414 at 2600’ right where the map and my 60Csx showed the junction to be. After traversing about 100’ of nothing we came upon a game trail which followed the track for about another 200’ and then we were busting through slide alder for about ¾ the distance of the non-trail. Realizing it’s nonexistence and looking for an escape, we bailed left up a steep talus slope that took us up to 3800’, just where the 417 reaches the drop off at the beginning of the plateau, with the view of the Defiance summit off to the southwest.totops1 wrote:I actually have a question regarding your track. Like most of the Defiance reports and topo guides on the internet, it looks like the Starvation Ridge takes the trails 414 and 417 to attain the top. However, nobody seems to ONLY use 414 trail, the actual designated Starvation Ridge, why so ?
I have actually hiked it myself and couldn't find the junction between 414 and 417, does it exist ? is the topo map wrong ?did I miss it ?
Since then, I read a Mazamas article saying this route was used on snow, only. As Nat mentioned, Pablo no doubt has more info on this area. Mitchell Point Trail #417 junctions Trail #414 at 3360' and starts from just above the big talus slope and goes to the junction with Defiance Traii #413.
Last edited by Jack on December 22nd, 2014, 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.