Cougars in Oregon

[kepPNW]

"That would seem to be so dense as to qualify as over-populated, eh?"

Uh oh, this could go downhill quickly

I didn't follow the link, just looked at the stat and really wondered. Like raftingdog, I'd always thought those guys needed about 50sqmi, on average, to get by. So, as was also suggested by several, it sure seems like the stat is probably not only make-believe but also highly slanted towards some political end.

[Aimless]

Yet cougar sightings are still pretty darn rare.

Estimates, like polling samples, come with margins of error. In the case of an animal as reclusive and as stealthy as cougars I don't think anyone would think that 5700 is more than a ballpark number. I have a nephew who is a very experienced and talented tracker (not a hunter) with a particular interest in cougars. He sees cougar signs constantly whenever he is in the woods, but even he sights cougars very rarely.

I have seen what I suspected were cougar tracks, one time about 5 years back, not far from my house here in Lake Oswego. The paw prints were left in soft mud, large and cat-like, the toes well separated, rounded and the size of table grapes, no claw marks. I know for certain that there are deer in my neighborhood, so there is a draw for them.

My meagerly-informed opinion is that cougar populations in Oregon have recovered strongly over the past couple of decades. I trust the ODFW to have a reasonable handle on the situation. 55,000 tags yielding fewer than 600 kills does not alarm me, yet.

[raftingdog]

Wisconsin put feral cats on hunting list..... but removed after reaction some people hate cats and joke they were probably rats in former incarnation....

[retired jerry]

I'm always looking for wildlife including Cougar tracks and see them occasionally, although there's uncertainty if that's what they really are. Never seen an animal. I've seen Cougar tracks on top of my tracks from the day before.

I think they're just stealthy.

Bears are similar but not as stealthy and there's more of them. I've seen a bear chased away from hikers on a trail, but they said they never saw it.

I see your point about over-estimating - may be going extinct and we think they're okay.

There needs to be wildlife people regularly doing estimates using the same methodology to see if numbers are dropping.

50 square miles are for males? So you can also have some females and young ones in that same area?

[kepPNW]

50 square miles are for males? So you can also have some females and young ones in that same area?

WDFW estimated 2000-2500 cougars in Washington a few years back, and further suggests:

• Adult male cougars roam widely, covering a home range of 50 to 150 square miles, depending on the age of the cougar, the time of year, type of terrain, and availability of prey.
• Adult male cougars’ home ranges will often overlap those of three or four females.
• Female home ranges are about half that of males and there in considerable overlap in female home ranges.
• Often female progeny will establish a territory adjacent to mother, while virtually all males disperse considerable distances from the natal area.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/cougars.html

[DefianceOrBust]

Thanks for the link kepPNW.

The following is an excerpt from a book. For comparison, if there are 5700 cougars in Oregon, then the density is 6 cougars per 100 square mile (for the entire state).

> The amount of stalking cover and prey numbers in cougar habitat obviously influence home range size. Home range size and the degree of overlap in turn influence the density of a cougar population in a given area.(27) Density estimates of 3 to 7 adult cougars per 100 square miles have been made in southern Alberta(28) and 5 to 8 adult cougars per 100 square miles in the Diablo Mountains of California.(16) Both habitats are characterized by good stalking cover and abundant prey. Lion densities in dryer desert climates seem to be lower. Linda Sweanor and Kenny Logan estimate only 2 adult cougars per 100 square miles in their New Mexico study area, which lies in the Chihuahuan Desert.(29) Densities in southern Utah were even lower, at .5 to .8 adult cougars per 100 square miles, which was 30 percent lower than densities estimated elsewhere.(25) When stalking cover, prey, and water are scarce, cougars expend more energy searching for and stalking prey in larger home ranges. As a result, the cougar population is scattered more thinly across the region. (Fred Lindzey cautions that estimating densities of a solitary and highly mobile predator like the mountain lion is difficult, and that a variety of estimation methods are used by biologists, so one must he careful in making comparisons.(12))

> Sitton and Wallen documented some of the smallest home ranges in the Big Sur region of coastal California, where the average home ranges were 25 to 35 square miles for males and 18 to 25 square miles for females.(24)

http://www.mountainlion.org/cal_ch3.asp

[raven]

I agree with pdxgene. Too many for such rare sitings, a lack of observed chases and fighting among males. Also, considering the many miles walked by hikers from this group in good cougar habitat, too many for so few tracks reported in snow on these pages.

Even good numbers on wilderness use are hard to find. When I asked about the reported numbers years ago in the Willamette NF I did not get an answer. The wilderness permit system was not in use over most of the period. The estimates probably were guesses extrapolated along a trend line by the person assigned to report the number in a given year.

Are cougar counts that different? But apex predator numbers are more important because politically generated numbers do get into print and sway arguments through emotions. And in this thread I see disinformation galore. Yes, dogs can find one cougar at a time in one place. That is one example. But the hunt is not done at a random location, nor a hundred. Nor is a hunt a count. To get a count you need a means of estimating a number over an area at a point in time. Then to extrapolate it to a larger area with different characteristics, you need a means, a rule of operation. Then, were steps done by disinterested parties?

Cameras provide inadequate information. They are placed where their targets are likely to be seen, not randomly leaving the extrapolation problem intact. BCH claims to have seen 5 cougar in 26 years of looking for them in non-randomly selected locations. Few cougar, but not a count.

Nor does seeing cougar sign count. Cougars leave their scat and other sign as part of their social signaling with other cougars. Dispersing males know when to keep going by reading that sign. You are supposed to find that sign. And there is as much as the cat can make, often left in trails.

So ... Whenever you have a chance in a public forum or when talking with a reporter about wildlife ... Ask how the number was determined. Ask where specifically the number was determined, how the number was extrapolated from sample data. Ask the years and months and places where the data were collected that went into that number. Ask about the randomness of the sampling. Ask how the counters eliminated double-counting of the same animals. Ask who put together the data, and who funded the studies -- in the case of the state, which agency, in the likely case the counts are funded by selling hunting permits and licenses. Then ask how many cougar (or whatever animal is involved) reside within the Portland City limits according to that estimation procedure, where those animals live, and why there are no reports of sightings.

If the nearby cougar are so polite as to not be seen, why take the risk of replacing them with ones that are not so polite? Politics and the dissimilar effects on a career of a dead animal now versus the possibility of an injured person later.

If numbers are needed for any purpose, they must be good estimates, in the statistical sense, not convenient stories.

[BrianEdwards]

Judging by the amount of scat, and hiker stories, cougars are doing just fine in the Clackamas River drainage.

[DefianceOrBust]

excellent points raven, thanks!

[backcountryhunter]

Raven, the 5 cougars I have seen in the wild I was not actively looking for them. I don't hunt cougars. Me and those cats just happened to be hunting the same prey at the same time and crossed paths.

If you really want the skinny on cougars in the state contact Dr. Don Whitaker with ODFW in Salem.

For info on the cougar/deer mortality research that was done in the state and info on how they model the cougar populations in that research, contact Dwayne Jackson who is the Chief Research Scientist with ODFW out of Roseburg.

I don't have the contact phone numbers but I am sure you can find them on the ODFW web site.