Cougars in Oregon

General discussions on hiking in Oregon and the Pacific Northwest
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Roy
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Re: Cougars in Oregon

Post by Roy » April 16th, 2014, 8:23 am

I would like to see one in the wild. Not in my neighborhood ;)

I know I was tent camping a Yale park about 10 yrs ago. A big cat spayed a tent in the night . The guy said it sounded like a hose hitting the tent. He looked out and surprise.

They left having small children they were shaken up.

My father in law had 10 acres and a few cows and told me the former owner of our home and others went on cougar hunts in the early sixty's. The county had a bounty on them. Some where I have photo of several large cats they shot one Sat.

They were losing a lot of live stock in the Orchards, Brush prairie and Battle ground area.There is a Less Shwab on their old place now Freddy's and Safeway's near by.

A school and subdivision where I lived as a young teen.

Is population increasing the cause of more cats? Every thing subdivided and agriculture is father out than it was thus people would despise bounties on cats.

Id just love see one out there I've seen tracks that's it.

I have some property zoned for 2.5 acre lots. Its pretty empty there so far. But i talked to a guy who built a nice place on five acres next to me. He said the cats get petty bold about walking around their place. His wife is worried about the kids and the dog.

He told me he never thought about that when he moved there they just wanted to see Bambi :lol:

I laughed and said don't be talking to anyone up here looking at my lots I already blew it from the offers I got before 06.
Last edited by Roy on April 16th, 2014, 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
The downhill of the mind is harder than the uphill of the body. - Yuichiro Miura

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Roy
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Re: Cougars in Oregon

Post by Roy » April 16th, 2014, 9:08 am

DefianceOrBust wrote:You make some good points.

I didn't realize that hunters are lobbying for fewer elk and deer tags. Good for them. I didn't know that. I stand corrected. As an aside, I think history teaches that the way we've handled it is failing.
Farmers, anglers and hunters are a lot more engaged than hikers they are working in the system.
The downhill of the mind is harder than the uphill of the body. - Yuichiro Miura

DefianceOrBust
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Re: Cougars in Oregon

Post by DefianceOrBust » April 16th, 2014, 9:44 am

Before heading off down the trail, I thought I'd summarize what I've learned ...

The seemingly outlandishly high estimate of the number of cougars in Oregon, 5700, is what prompted me to started this thread. If Oregon has 98,380 sq miles, then 5700 cougars divides out to a state-wide average of 6 cougars per 100 square miles. WOW!

But I've changed my mind after reading up on the issue, primarily the ODFW's 2006 Cougar Management Plan (CMP) which comprises 146 pages including 9 pages of references. The figure 5700 no longer seems outlandish. It in fact seems quite reasonable. Here's why.

The 2006 CMP hunting+non-hunting mortality maps suggest that on a broad scale the cougar population is fairly uniform over about half the state and sparse elsewhere. This is summarized in 2006 CMP density map. Based on average litter size and based on radio collar measurements of female cougar home ranges, the all-age cougar density over this region ranges from 6 to 24 all-age cougars per 100 square miles (calcuation details in this post).

If the average for that half of the state is 12 per 100 sq.mi., (a figure that is consistent with study sites; see p8, paragraph 3, 2006 CMP), and if the other half of the state has zero cougars, then the statewide average is 6 per 100 sq.mi., for a statewide total of 5700 all-age cougars.

The topic came up in this thread of using dogs to hunt cougars. In the last year that dogs were allowed, 1994, hunters killed 199 cougars (Table 3, p16, 2006 CMP), which is 6.6% of the estimated 1994 population. In 2013, without the dogs, hunters killed 292 cougars, which is 5.1% of the estimated 2013 population. In absolute or relative terms, it's not a big difference whether hunters use dogs or not - the harvest is the same. Ironically, though, it's probably accomplished with less effort when dogs are not used because most cougar harvesting without dogs has been incidental to hunting for other species (p115, 2006 CMP). That incidental harvesting can really add up!

So on the topic of hunting with dogs, the main question in my mind is the ethics of the methodology that some (not necessarily all) hunters will use to train their dogs, and the ethics of subjecting dogs to the apparently high risk of getting into a fight with a cougar, resulting in maiming, permanently disability, or a brutal death.

In regards to continuing to harvest elk and deer when their populations are dwindling, it makes no sense to me from my perspective, period, but especially so considering the quotas for cougars are not being met. On the other hand, I do understand how a staunch individualist with a ethic of 'anything is ok as long as it is not illegal' would see it otherwise, especially in the light that hunters (purportedly) are actively lobbying for lowering the annual elk/deer harvests.)

I think that's all I wanted to say. Happy trails!

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backcountryhunter
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Re: Cougars in Oregon

Post by backcountryhunter » April 16th, 2014, 2:28 pm

Well DOB I am glad you figured it out and appreciate all your research and thoughts.

I generally do not like discussing hunting on a hiking site out of respect for other folks views but I will call people out if need be.

I have been a member of this forum since the beginning and really enjoy helping other hikers out regarding being prepared for upcoming seasons and to wear hunter orange when out on the trail including fido.

One more thing I absolutely hate the term "harvest" when it comes to hunting animals. Let's call it what it is: Hunters kill animals. We take a life, to feed a life, in the circle of life. That's the way it is and the way it has been since we started walking upright. I have a lot of respect for the animals I kill to feed me and my family. I just feel using the word "harvest" when taking their life degrades them to the level of a field of corn. We harvest vegetables, we kill animals.

Nuff Said!

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Re: Cougars in Oregon

Post by Aimless » April 16th, 2014, 2:55 pm

I agree about not using the word 'harvest' and I would extend that to any natural living organisms that humans did not plant, feed, tend or protect from harm. We can 'harvest' a tree farm because it is a planted and tended crop, but not an old growth forest, or wild mushrooms, or wild fish, and so on. We can hunt them, capture them, gather them, fell them, kill them, but not 'harvest' them.

Lumpy
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Re: Cougars in Oregon

Post by Lumpy » April 17th, 2014, 11:03 am

backcountryhunter wrote: Let's call it what it is: Hunters kill animals. We take a life, to feed a life, in the circle of life.
Not always. I know you are speaking for yourself, so when you are talking about yourself, please make sure you articulate that. I've never heard of anyone in modern times eating cougar or coyote. Predators can be hunted in order to help control livestock or wild game kill in areas where that is deemed necessary, but who eats predator meat? No one I have ever heard of.

I am ready to be wrong, but even one person eating predator meat would surprise me.

Sorry for picking nits, but this has always bothered me when hunters are held up in some righteous light when some never touch the meat they kill any more than to discard/dispose of it in some manner.
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DefianceOrBust
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Re: Cougars in Oregon

Post by DefianceOrBust » April 17th, 2014, 4:32 pm

RE eating cougar: https://www.google.com/#q=cougar+meat

RE 'harvest': There can be different management objects. In one, the aim would be to restore as much as possible the intrinsic balance of the uninhabited environment without regard to the desires of hunters and fishers. In another, the aim would be to manipulate the uninhabited environment to maximize the desires of hunters and fishers. Supposing these are two ends of a spectrum, 'harvest' is appropriate to the later. In other words, call it what it is. The more hunters and fishers get their way with the land and lakes being managed in a way that maximizes fishing and hunting opportunities, the more it truly resembles raising and harvesting wheat.

Image

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Lumpy
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Re: Cougars in Oregon

Post by Lumpy » April 17th, 2014, 6:40 pm

Ok, I'm wrong, I'd just never heard of it being done from sport hunting.
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retired jerry
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Re: Cougars in Oregon

Post by retired jerry » April 17th, 2014, 6:49 pm

I don't think people hunt Cougar to eat them, they hunt them to increase deer population, decrease livestock predation...

The fact that outdoor people are asking if it can be eaten, someone says they've only eaten jerky, another says all meat can be eaten... kind of implies that eating it is unusual.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

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BrianEdwards
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Re: Cougars in Oregon

Post by BrianEdwards » April 17th, 2014, 7:06 pm

Um, Ive eaten cougar. Wasn't bad on the traeger :mrgreen:
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