When all of a sudden there arose such a clatter....

The purpose of this forum is to help people identify things they've seen while out hiking: wildflowers, trees, birds, insects, small animals, animal tracks, even geographical features like buttes or streams
User avatar
Waffle Stomper
Posts: 3707
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: When all of a sudden there arose such a clatter....

Post by Waffle Stomper » July 27th, 2013, 10:05 am

raven wrote: can legally dust your mountain goat at 600 mph, but they cannot give you a photo op of a sonic boom generating a rainbow in the fur of the tumbling goat.
Now that's a phrase I don't hear everyday.

It's much like submarine echos and whales, they should be testing near them but they do.
"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." - John Muir

R11
Posts: 313
Joined: June 22nd, 2011, 12:27 pm
Location: PDX

Re: When all of a sudden there arose such a clatter....

Post by R11 » July 27th, 2013, 10:11 am

raven wrote:I looked up the laws on the use of low-level training flights over wilderness areas. (I've been meaning to read the rules for years.)

A private pilot has to stay 2000' minimum over a wilderness area. All aircraft are normally limited to 250 knots indicated air speed below 10000' above sea level for see and avoid reasons in continental U.S. airspace. Exemptions exist for military flightsunder specific conditions, such as air shows or aircraft that require higher speeds, but normally the military has to fit in with other traffic. So the low-level flights over wildernesses would seem as though they are mere arrogance -- but there are different rules for military training flights...

The military has low-level training routes in shared airspace; population centers are avoided. Flights must be subsonic and within, I think, 10 nautical miles of the centerline of the published route. I'm not sure, but there may be no ground clearance distance requirement apart from see and avoid. The military has to provide at least a 2 hour warning via the FAA when a low-level training route is to be used. There is a military exemption for training flights over wildernesses, and there are published low-level routes over the North Cascades. So military jets can legally dust your mountain goat at 600 mph, but they cannot give you a photo op of a sonic boom generating a rainbow in the fur of the tumbling goat.

The rules do not relieve the military of general responsibility for safe operations. So, if a pilot does something that seems dangerous, complain to Whidbey Island NAS as the probable controlling facility. The controlling facility should be aware of which flight operations are or were in the area at any given time and the FAA should have a record of the issued NOTAM (notice to airmen). Safety assures only one flight operation is cleared at a time, although multiple aircraft may be involved, so specific pilots can be identified if the time and location of an incident are known.
Interesting info raven. And I like your goat imagery :lol:. I've always figured they were just doing training and really, for that kind of low level, natural obstacle course type flying those areas would seem to be ideal. And obviously they do come and go pretty darn quickly so even the people that don't appreciate them don't have to put up with it for very long :). Personally I think they're pretty cool, but to me it always kind of puts things in perspective as these super powerful and fast man made machines actually seem a bit less impressive and much more insignificant when cruising amongst the massive backdrop of Mother Nature's own displays.


ron

Post Reply