Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

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funhog
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Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by funhog » September 1st, 2011, 7:50 pm

I've never used anything but a pop can alcohol stove. My latest creation is made out of a Red Bull and a V8 can, itty bitty. I use an old 1/4 cup measuring cup as a snuffer at dinner time instead of letting excess fuel burn away. I can then use the remainder at breakfast. Cooking for just myself, I use 2 oz. of fuel per day, boiling about 3 cups of water. I only cook stuff that takes less than five minutes. The pot stand is rat wire and the wind screen is a piece of aluminum roof flashing. I really like not having canisters to deal with when the fuel is gone.
stove.jpg
stove.jpg (16.05 KiB) Viewed 2961 times
An interesting side note: I learned on a trip to New Zealand that when you want to buy fuel for this kind of stove, you don't ask for denatured alcohol. You have to ask for "meths!" It's short for methylated spirits...

tnitz
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Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by tnitz » September 16th, 2011, 1:05 pm

I still have my "ultralight" original Coleman Peak 1 gas stove. Great for cooking crab or car camping now...

I've used both Snow Peak canister and various alcohol stoves, and have built a few woodstoves. All work. For me, regardless of weight differences, the canister stove remains my primary stove. I don't want to fiddle with stuff or wait, especially on a chilly morning. I never use windscreens and so far haven't found that to be an issue, there's always somewhere protected I can find.

I do like alcohol stoves for another reason altogether, and admittedly like sideburners better than top burners because of their simplicity. I keep one in the car or in a daypack just in case I want a hot cup of something.

Also, each stove performs differently and I've tried a number of configurations and bought some. I tested all of them side by side once and the smallest sideburner actually worked the best, I can't say why, except that perhaps the flame pattern matched the pot size better. For me, rather than continuing to dink around trying to figure out an optimal solution for myself, I ended up liking the purchased one the best.

For what it's worth, last weekend I soloed up in the Eagle Caps and when I was packing I didn't even consider taking the alcohol stove (for the first time ever) despite issues of weight, etc. the canister stove is just worth it for me.

Also, EITHER solution will be alot faster than using a petrol stove! They get hot, but in comparison take forever to get going.

(fanless wood stoves do work, but I was mostly interested in them for cold weather use - the ones I built worked well in warm weather, but in cold, high altitude work, they simply couldn't heat water as I wanted. Given all the other issues associated with wood stoves, I am unconvinced they are the best solution. Maybe the commercial versions work better - they sure look interesting)

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Crusak
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Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by Crusak » September 16th, 2011, 6:03 pm

I went back and read this entire thread, and realized that no one has mentioned a very nice advantage that alcohol stoves have: they are quiet, aren't they? I didn't see that anyone mentioned that little tidbit.

My MSR pocket rocket canister stove sounds like a jet engine when I fire it up. :lol: When I'm camped with other hikers they always complain about my early-rising habits and my need for hot beverages first thing, because of all the noise my canister stove makes.

If I used an alcohol stove, I could heat up some water in stealth, and have my cup o' Joe without disturbing the others in camp. I might try making myself an alcohol stove this fall and see how well it works.
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skimanjohn
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Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by skimanjohn » September 17th, 2011, 4:49 pm

Have found that the Pocket Rocket is very quiet when turned down and still will boil water much faster than an alcohol
stove.
Dont get me wrong.I feel that whatever a hiker prefers to use is fine with me,after all it is only my opinion verses theirs,but I do
find humor in the repeated posts over stoves,tents,boots and packs.There is the UL group, the Light group,the who really cares group and then the mountaineers.Every group is correct for their style of doing things and as for myself comfort and speedyness are both ness.ymmv

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Guy
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Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by Guy » September 17th, 2011, 5:39 pm

My MSR pocket rocket canister stove sounds like a jet engine when I fire it up. :lol: When I'm camped with other hikers they always complain about my early-rising habits and my need for hot beverages first thing, because of all the noise my canister stove makes.
As someone who rarely sleeps past 5:30 camping or not I think everyone should get up early - they are missing the day! I would view the noisiness of the MSR pocket rocket as a distinct advantage ;) ...
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Lumpy
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Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by Lumpy » October 15th, 2012, 11:12 am

I am currently making myself a cat can stove, and tweaking little things about it to get it right. I started with the instructions on http://royrobinson.homestead.com/Cat_Stove.html and have done some little changes due to not having all the tools listed on the page.

For example, instead of trying to track a small church key opener for the smaller holes of the inner can, I use the can opener from my Gerber multi-tool to make slits for the air to enter the "combustion chamber". I will also be making a "simmer" outer can that allows much less air to enter the smaller inside can to try to lower the heat output/fuel burn rate. I have timed the burn time for 25cc of yellow bottle HEET, and I hope that an eight minute burn is enough time to boil two cups or so of water. MONGO NEED COFFEE!!!

One can also make the pot holder the perfect height for the size flame you get so that the flame heats the bottom of the pot the way you want it to. The thought problem I've had with some of the pepsi can stoves is that even if a windscreen is used, the flames go up the sides of the pot. Since heat rises, this seems like a waste of fuel to me. The cat can stove was put to the test against other alcohol stoves at a ADZPCTKO (I was not there) and boiled water quicker than the other homemade stoves.

Also, to me, the pepsi can stoves are more difficult to make compared to the cat can. I don't have any fiberglass insulation in mine, so there is no need to have any screening to hold it in, either. Make the holes, space them even somewhat evenly, put the little can in the big one, cut a hole using the impression in the bottom of the large can for the flame, and you got a stove.
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Grannyhiker
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Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by Grannyhiker » October 15th, 2012, 12:51 pm

Since this thread of a couple years ago has been brought up again, here are a few updates:

In the extreme fire danger we've been in for the past couple of months, most (not all) jurisdictions have included alcohol stoves in the fire ban. That's primarily due to the big fire near Fort Collins, Colorado, last spring caused by a careless alcohol stove user. We can debate the safety of canister vs. alcohol until the cows come home (you can set fires with a canister stove, too; with careful use alcohol is safe, too; all stoves need to be kept away from vegetation and preferably used on non-organic--i.e. gravel--soils), but the reality is that alcohol stoves are, with increasing frequency, illegal to use during campfire bans. Another reason for planning ahead and doing some research before your trip!

I've used my alcohol stove a few times, but when it comes to packing for a trip, I invariably take my canister stove because, at least for me, it's a lot more convenient. Your Mileage May Vary! However, my alcohol stove will be in my daypack this winter so I can make a cup of tea if needed--it's a great pick-me-up on a cold day!

A newer site on stoves that has popped up the past year or two is this one: http://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/
Of course the Zen stove site I listed on (I think) page 1 of this thread is still around.

The remote canister stove that allows for inverting the canister (such as the MSR WindPro) is becoming increasingly popular for winter camping. Inverting the canister seems to take care of the problems of canisters not working well (or at all) in below-freezing weather. While heavier than other canister stoves, the stove plus fuel combination of the remote canister setup is lighter than white gas stoves and doesn't require pumping.

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retired jerry
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Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by retired jerry » October 15th, 2012, 1:21 pm

Same here - canister is just so easy - turn it on, turn it off

But alcohol stoves work good for a lot of people

Another solution to cold weather canister operation:

first - make sure you have a canister with iso-butane, not regular butane, it it doesn't say "iso-butane" on the canister it's probably not. That's good down to 30 F easy, 25 F it's slow, 20 F uou might get it to work. Regular butane won't work below 35 F or 30 F.

second, if you want to use it down at 20 F, then warm it in your pocket or whatever, then wrap a 1.5 foot length of solid core aluminum or copper wire #18 or #16 is better. Wrap it around the canister and then bend it up so the end is in the flame. Heat will be conducted down to the canister.

regular canister operation - as the iso-butane evaporates inside the canister, it cools it off, which makes it more difficult at cold temperatures. When you first turn it on it may work, and then slow to nothing as it cools off.

another option is to have a container with water - cut-off bottom of 1 gallon milk jug works. Put water in it. Put the canister in it. Water will warm canister up. This water will cool down and freeze so you have to warm it up on stove occasionally.

Never let the canister get warm to touch or it can explode.

Inverted canister stove is good because liquid fuel leaves the canister so it doesn't cool the canister down. You only need a very little pressure to push liquid out. But, they're heavy and expensive. If you just buy it for an occasionaly winter trip, it can be obnoxious. Good down to 20 F or less.

Lumpy
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Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by Lumpy » October 15th, 2012, 4:18 pm

I totally get that alcohol stoves are inherently more dangerous than canister stoves. I simply can't afford a canister stove. If folks with alcohol stoves took great care, as anyone should with flame and fuel, you can reduce the risk. I believe the cat can stove is a little safer than the Pepsi can stoves because they do not allow the pot to sit on top, so the pot stand can be made to be sturdy. The goal of making a safe stove is foremost in my mind, until I can afford the best.
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retired jerry
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Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by retired jerry » October 15th, 2012, 5:05 pm

I think you can operate an alcohol stove safely.

If you're careless it's probably easier to start a wild fire?

Just because one fire was started one time one place doesn't mean anything

Alcohol stoves can weigh a little less

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