Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Ask questions and share your experiences with hiking & backpacking gear, and share trail recipes and gadget tips. Please see classifieds forum for buying/selling stuff.
User avatar
retired jerry
Posts: 14396
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by retired jerry » August 26th, 2010, 6:36 am

Okay, I made an alcohol stove from http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/index.html

Only deviation was I did 32 holes instead of 30 and used a 5 1/2 ounce can rather than 3 ounce.

Stove weighs 3/8 ounce vs my 3 ounce canister stove. An empty canister weighs 5 ounces for the 220 g size vs 1 ounce for a soda bottle used as alcohol container. So you save 6.5 ounces.

I normally heat 8 cups of water per day. That would use 4 ounces of alcohol or 1.25 ounce of canister fuel, so with alcohol it weighs 2.75 ounces more per day. For a 4 day trip, the alcohol setup weighs 4.5 ounces more.

Now, if I wanted to heat just 2 cups a day (bean or pea soup in the evening and oatmeal in the morning) then the alcohol setup would weigh 3.5 ounces less for a 4 day trip.

I think the point of this is there isn't a significant weight difference between alcohol and canister. And you're forced into compromises heating less water.

I don't like the alcohol flame - it's bigger, going up the sides of the pot, getting the handle hot, more susceptipal to wind, I'de have to get a slightly bigger windscreen which would subtract from any alcohol weight savings.

Rather than using an alcohol stove, I might consider going stoveless. Eat Granola rather than oatmeal. Chocolate instead of coffee. I could put my hydrating beans/peas in a container next to my body for an hour. Then Id'e save maybe 10 ounces for canister with fuel, 3 ounce stove, 6 ounces for pot/spoon/windscreen - 19 ounces total.

Pnw.hiker
Posts: 193
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by Pnw.hiker » August 26th, 2010, 9:12 am

retired jerry wrote:Okay, I made an alcohol stove from http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/index.html

Only deviation was I did 32 holes instead of 30 and used a 5 1/2 ounce can rather than 3 ounce.

Stove weighs 3/8 ounce vs my 3 ounce canister stove. An empty canister weighs 5 ounces for the 220 g size vs 1 ounce for a soda bottle used as alcohol container. So you save 6.5 ounces.
6.5 avdp ounces translates into 8.2 fluid ounces of ethanol. That's 3 days worth of fuel for me. I boil about 4 cups/day.

If I boiled 8 cups of water/day I might prefer a faster more power stove ... idunno.
retired jerry wrote:I normally heat 8 cups of water per day. That would use 4 ounces of alcohol or 1.25 ounce of canister fuel, so with alcohol it weighs 2.75 ounces more per day. For a 4 day trip, the alcohol setup weighs 4.5 ounces more.

Now, if I wanted to heat just 2 cups a day (bean or pea soup in the evening and oatmeal in the morning) then the alcohol setup would weigh 3.5 ounces less for a 4 day trip.

I think the point of this is there isn't a significant weight difference between alcohol and canister. And you're forced into compromises heating less water.

I don't like the alcohol flame - it's bigger, going up the sides of the pot, getting the handle hot, more susceptipal to wind, I'de have to get a slightly bigger windscreen which would subtract from any alcohol weight savings.
Never tried the SuperCat stove so I can't comment on its particular efficiency, convenience or burn characteristics. But I find sideburners which double as the pot stand to be a poor design. See my earlier post for the reason. As to its efficiency, I just did a sanity check on my back porch and boiled 2 cups with 1 tablespoon of fuel (1/2 fluid oz). Your calculations use twice that much fuel.
retired jerry wrote:Rather than using an alcohol stove, I might consider going stoveless. Eat Granola rather than oatmeal. Chocolate instead of coffee. I could put my hydrating beans/peas in a container next to my body for an hour. Then Id'e save maybe 10 ounces for canister with fuel, 3 ounce stove, 6 ounces for pot/spoon/windscreen - 19 ounces total.
Other things to consider;
- $10 for my entire cookset (see link earlier in the thread). That's about 1/10 my previous store bought canister stove + backpacking pot.
- $15 for gallon of ethanol = $.11/oz, that's about 1/10th isobutane's cost by weight and maybe 1/4 by cups of water boiled.

Convenience;
My cookset is more stable than any canister stove I've used. The pot doesn't slide around or tip. The stove and windscreen fit inside the pot. The fuel is more convenient - just refill the bottle from the gallon can. You can always see how much fuel you have left. No partially full canisters to juggle and weigh, don't have to make a special trip to buy fuel as often.

If the weights were equal between a canister stove and my alcohol stove, I'd still prefer my alcohol stove. But the weight's aren't equal - I always save a few ounces with the alcohol stove. And it costs a fraction to make and operate. I guess a big part of this is choosing the right alcohol stove and windscreen design.
Last edited by Pnw.hiker on August 26th, 2010, 12:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
retired jerry
Posts: 14396
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by retired jerry » August 26th, 2010, 9:22 am

Okay, now I'm going to have to make a top burner alcohol stove.

Then, I'll also have to make a pot stand to go along with it.

Since it's 1/2 ounces to boil 2 cups that does tilt things a little in favor of the alcohol.

Definitely can't beat the price.

I'll probably stick with the convenience of canister stove, but then I guess I'm a canister stove fanatic :)

Pnw.hiker
Posts: 193
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by Pnw.hiker » August 26th, 2010, 9:33 am

retired jerry wrote:Okay, now I'm going to have to make a top burner alcohol stove.
sent me a pm with your address and i'll send you one :)

User avatar
retired jerry
Posts: 14396
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by retired jerry » August 26th, 2010, 9:52 am

Making it is half the fun

User avatar
sparklehorse
Posts: 827
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Location: over the hill
Contact:

Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by sparklehorse » August 26th, 2010, 8:29 pm

For solo trips, I use a little Snow Peak 600 mug w/ a Trail Designs Ti Caldera ULC Cone. I really like it. I can easily boil two cups of water with one ounce of alcohol. For that six-day trip I just did in the Three Sisters I only took 8 ounces of alcohol and didn't even use all of it. I had cold cereal some mornings, but always a cup of coffee or two. A cold dinner one night, but smoked salmon & cream cheese on tortillas is so good you don't care it isn't hot.

Image

Everything fits inside the little mug but the ti stakes and fuel bottle:

Image

It came with an optional windscreen but I never use it:

Image

Here's the weights (in ounces):

ULC Ti Cone: .625
SP600 Mug: 2.875
SP600 Lid: .5
Trail Designs 12-10 Pepsi Can Stove: .5
Ti Stakes (2): .375
------------------------------
Total for cookset: 4.875 oz (not counting fuel of course)

Gordon
.
You have to milk the cow a lot to make a bit of cheese.
~Henri Cartier-Bresson

Smugmug / Facebook

Pnw.hiker
Posts: 193
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by Pnw.hiker » August 27th, 2010, 7:05 am

sparklehorse wrote: Here's the weights (in ounces):

ULC Ti Cone: .625
SP600 Mug: 2.875
SP600 Lid: .5
Trail Designs 12-10 Pepsi Can Stove: .5
Ti Stakes (2): .375
------------------------------
Total for cookset: 4.875 oz (not counting fuel of course)
Gordon
That's a nice little stove. Have you used it burning wood yet? I might remake my potstand with stainless for that reason.

How does the potstand fasten?

User avatar
sparklehorse
Posts: 827
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Location: over the hill
Contact:

Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by sparklehorse » August 27th, 2010, 7:48 am

Pnw.hiker wrote:That's a nice little stove. Have you used it burning wood yet? I might remake my potstand with stainless for that reason.

How does the potstand fasten?
Trail Designs makes a nice dovetail closure for their cones. The fit is snug and precise. You can see the dovetail a little better here:

Image

I haven't tried it as a wood burner. Wood burning stoves are a bit sooty for my liking.

G
.
You have to milk the cow a lot to make a bit of cheese.
~Henri Cartier-Bresson

Smugmug / Facebook

User avatar
jkb
Posts: 34
Joined: May 16th, 2010, 1:12 pm
Location: Oregon City, OR
Contact:

Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by jkb » September 7th, 2010, 7:22 pm

retired jerry wrote:Making it is half the fun
I disagree. It was certainly more than just half the fun! ;)

User avatar
rogersjd74
Posts: 38
Joined: October 14th, 2008, 9:43 am
Location: Tigard, Oregon

Re: Canister vs. Alcohol Stove

Post by rogersjd74 » August 31st, 2011, 9:59 am

Looking for a stove and this thread has been entertaining and VERY helpful!

Post Reply