On a similar topic... lightweight gear choices?

[Grannyhiker]

Here is the "definitive" classification of base pack weights, which should settle the argument for all time:

http://www.portlandhikers.org/forum/vie ... 4664#p4664

[IslandCougGirl]

I met a thru-hiker on the PCT who only carried a poncho tarp and a rainjacket. It was nuts! He only drank water at the sources so didn't carry any on him. He was only going from Cascade Locks to Timberline for the weekend but that was crazy light! I had roughly a 30 pound pack and my feet felt like someone took a hammer to them. I need to get the weight down and also the weight on me down.

[Chazz]

Anyone know why sleeping bags go from $100 for a non-UL to a range of $250-600 for a UL version? Seems crazy. Also, do people recommend down versus synthetic? I'm partial to synthetic because they can dry out faster and more evenly.

Example: Marmot Testles 30 degree for $100 (52 oz)
http://www.rei.com/item/828305/marmot-t ... eeping-bag

Compared to: Marmot Hydrogen for $350 (25 oz)
http://www.rei.com/item/864089/marmot-h ... g#specsTab

Seems like all the UL bags are down-only, which may partially explain the difference.

Seems like the REI Flash is a good compromise for the price/weight ratio.
http://www.rei.com/item/862529/rei-flas ... g#specsTab

[Aimless]

Any sleeping bag that would qualify as UL will be down-filled, but that is just the beginning.

That down fill will most certainly be goose down, as opposed to duck down or down/feathers, and the fill-rating of that goose down will be 800 or higher. The fill-rating refers to the cubic volume of a standard weight of down, so, for example 800-rated down will loft 33% higher than the same weight of 600-rated down. Because the insulating property of a sleeping bag depends on creating a dead air space that is warmed by your body heat, 33% more loft creates 33% more dead air space for the same weight.

Just a few years ago, the Chinese got into the goose down market in a big way and the price of high quality 800-rated goose down dropped for a while as the supply boomed, making down-filled items very attractive compared to synthetics. However, the worldwide demand for high quality goose down has recently started to boom, too, so the prices have risen again rather sharply along with that demand.

The very best sleeping bag makers, such as Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends have raised prices as their materials costs have risen, rather than sacrifice quality. But, many manufacturers have begun to use lower quality down in more of their products as a way to keep prices low, so keep an eye on the fill-rating as well as the price when shopping for down-filled items.

Synthetic-filled sleeping bags are perfectly acceptable, but you should realize that goose down will always deliver better insulation at a lower weight than a synthetic, even at lower fill-ratings such as 550. Synthetics also will lose their insulating properties more quickly than down and will need to be replaced sooner. As for the claim that synthetics are superior when wet, bear in mind that NO sleeping bag will keep you very warm if it is wet, because your body has to work much harder to warm up waterlogged insulating material than to warm up dry air space.

[Koda]

I'm partial to synthetic because they can dry out faster and more evenly.

There is the idea that since synthetic material will dry faster it would be a safety consideration during an emergency… on the surface this seems logical but in practical experience if a sleeping bag is that wet there are already other bigger problems at play that need to be dealt with before you could keep any bag dry let alone after drying it out…. They way I look at it is a wet sleeping bag is the final straw to head home because what’s more important to me is why the sleeping bag is wet. I’ve been on countless rained out events where most everything got soaked except my down bag was always dry and warm.

I drool over the Western Mountaineering down bag I want but its price range has kept it out of reach for me. I have a good compromise down bag that weighs about a pound more for about hundred dollars less…. Which makes it even harder to spend the money on a new Western Mountaineering bag just so I could finally drop my baseweight under 10lbs… when going UL a good quality down bag is the straw that breaks the camel’s back….

[RichardDavies]

Any sleeping bag that would qualify as UL will be down-filled, but that is just the beginning.

I think traditionally that's been true, but newer synthetics are getting closer and closer to the performance of down. I have a synthetic Mountain Hardware Ultralamina 32° that weighs 2 lbs and compresses to the size of a loaf of bread. That weight and size seems pretty comparable to all but the most expensive UL down bags, but I got it on sale a few years ago for $125--much less than comparable down bags.

[Aimless]

Your Mountain Hardware Ultralamina 32° weighs 2 lbs and cost you $125. Mountain Hardwear's web site lists their current version of the Ultralamina 32° at 1 lb. 11 oz, but the price is $240. They also show you the bag's EN ratings, both the comfort rating and the limit. This shows the bag is actually rated as being comfortable for a man down to 40°, with 32° being the lower limit at which the bag can be safely relied on to keep you from getting hypothermic. Because women tend to sleep colder than men, there is a separate EN comfort rating for women, but I didn't see that listed.

By way of contrast, a Western Mountaineering SummerLite sleeping bag weighs 1 lb. 3 oz. and lists at $395, but you can be certain that its 32° temperature rating is entirely reliable. If you have the correct insulation underneath you, you'll be comfortable at 32 degrees. I've never heard anyone complain that their WM bag failed to meet WM's temperature rating.

High quality down filled bags still beat synthetics in their warmth to weight ratio by a pretty good margin. At least they still do as far as I can see, without my being a sleeping bag tester or having to buy a couple dozen bags to compare them. Of course, not everyone can sink that big a chunk of money into their hobby all at once, so there's room in the market for all kinds of bags at a lot of different price points.

[RichardDavies]

Mountain Hardwear's web site lists their current version of the Ultralamina 32° at 1 lb. 11 oz, but the price is $240.

What can I say, I got a great deal on mine and the newer models are even lighter weight.

They also show you the bag's EN ratings, both the comfort rating and the limit. This shows the bag is actually rated as being comfortable for a man down to 40°, with 32° being the lower limit at which the bag can be safely relied on to keep you from getting hypothermic.

Yes, the same also applies to the 32° rating of your WM SummerLite.

I've never heard anyone complain that their WM bag failed to meet WM's temperature rating.

Then you should take a look at this review that gave it a 3/10 for warmth

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Backpacki ... Summerlite

High quality down filled bags still beat synthetics in their warmth to weight ratio by a pretty good margin.

No doubt. But as I said the synthetics are getting closer and are 1/3 the price.

[Koda]

Aimless wrote:
High quality down filled bags still beat synthetics in their warmth to weight ratio by a pretty good margin.

No doubt. But as I said the synthetics are getting closer and are 1/3 the price.

Synthetics also take up about 3x more room in the pack. Compressed volume is equally an important factor especially in colder rated bags like down to zero.

No doubt companies are probably investing into synthetic technology, but I haven't seen anything even recently that compares to down. If you know of any please share...

[RichardDavies]

Synthetics also take up about 3x more room in the pack. I haven't seen anything even recently that compares to down. If you know of any please share...

Like I said earlier, my synthetic Mountain Hardware Ultralamina compresses down to about the size of a loaf of bread, which is very comparable to the Western Mountaineering Summerlite as judging from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... g5ec#t=490